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Discussion > Donald Trump thread

Alan kendall on Jun 14, 2016 at 8:31 PM, again

What a surprise:

Orlando Jihadi’s Father Helped Run Radical Mosque Son ‘Regularly’ Attended

The anti-gay, pro-Taliban father of the radical Islamic terrorist behind the recent carnage at an LGBT nightclub in Orlando, FL “served as a director and vice president” of the mosque attended by his son, which authorities describe as a “breeding ground” for jihadists, reports CounterJihad, a component of the Center for Security Policy.
U.S. citizen of Afghan descent Omar Mateen, the 29-year-old jihadist responsible for the June 12 massacre at the Pulse dance club that left 50 people dead, including himself, and 53 others wounded, was a regular worshiper at the Islamic Center of Ft. Pierce in St. Lucie County, FL — home of the terrorist — according the mosque’s imam, Syed Shafeeq Ur Rahman.

The mosque, which was the place of worship of two other jihadist killers, has been linked to radical Islamic extremist ideology. Mateen pledged allegiance to the Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL), which has claimed responsibility to the attack.

Jun 15, 2016 at 12:06 AM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

Raff, would that be the same alarmism burnt jnto your psyche about all the terrible global warming that hasn't happened? The public are bored, and therefore politicians are losing interest.

The previous 97% consensus fabrications don't seem to be working too well, either in the UK or USA. Is another one planned, or is there some convincing science on its way, that can trump Trump?

Jun 15, 2016 at 1:22 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Y'all might wonder why Trump has wiped the floor with 15 professional politicians in the primaries, many of whom are far more attractive than he is. Y'all might wonder how he got Obama spitting mad at him today, angrier than he was at the shooter. And y'all really should wonder about how Hillary finally found the need to use the term 'radical Islam'.

It's all gotten fairly precious. Some of you should be jealous that you haven't a similar character over there.

Jun 15, 2016 at 5:37 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Robert Christopher. Just what part of - the perpetrator was an AMERICAN" - don't you get? Trump's linkage of this with banning Muslims from entering the USA is pure islamophobia and rabble rousing. Yes he's very very good at that, but as a qualification for being president, weeeel?

Jun 15, 2016 at 6:17 AM | Unregistered CommenterAlan kendall

Raff. It would seem that your position on GW disqualifies you here from having a viable opinion upon everthing else. Shame on you for presuming.

I've made my point and it has not been understood nor answered. I have discussed my fears, and not been heard. Alternatively there is no answer to them. Why bother more? It's been a pleasure to have argued with you for once.

Jun 15, 2016 at 7:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterAlan kendall

Raff, Alan Kendall,
You are still not getting it.

Spot on.

The Political Game in the Western world has been played by a set of rules and conventions that evolved, like some kind of living organism, to perpetuate the game itself, rather than to serve any other goal. It has resulted in the rise of the Political Class, whose only training and experience is playing the Political Game. The Political Class have evolved their own set of values which have very little to do with the values and aspirations of the disenfranchised general population. Their disdain and contempt for the disenfranchised, particularly for the lower social classes, has resulted in the circumstances that have made Donald Trump's presidency a possibility.

Donald Trump is not playing by the tacit rules of the Political Game, which is part of the reason for the squeals of outrage from the Political Class. I think the changes that will result from his election will amount to a complete revolution in how things work.

Jun 15, 2016 at 8:18 AM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A

Martin A. One last post on this subject from me. You, I'm sorry to say don't get it. I suggest you need a quick review of the American political system. The system is purposely designed to prevent a charismatic president from over reaching. The Federal part of the system is based upon an intricate series of checks and balances. A president, although immensely powerful and influential, cannot do what he/she likes, even with the support of the "people". If Trump tries his usual strong arm tactics, the political mainstream will eviscerate him. Remember, if elected he will not be able to use his own money - that will be in trust.

You are not seeing a future political revolution in the USA. If he creates opposition he will find himself blocked by Congress (controlled by political machines), by the Supreme Court (often overlooked/underestimated in the UK), and not least by State governments.

Jun 15, 2016 at 9:02 AM | Unregistered CommenterAlan kendall

It's precisely the failure to limit an overreaching executive that has fueled Trump's rise. The rule of law is under pressure in the US with this sick administration.

It may surprise you, but Trump is perceived as more likely to obey the laws than either Obama has or Clinton will. He's been doing it for years, while those two have been shredding them almost as long.

Jun 15, 2016 at 3:11 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Alan kendall on Jun 15, 2016 at 6:17 AM
"Just what part of - the perpetrator was an AMERICAN" - don't you get?"

I get it! Families head for Britain, the US, in fact, most Western countries, because they see what wonderful opportunities are available. They come over, learn the language, work hard (for the good of themselves and their community), adopt our customs and INTEGRATE! After one, two max, generations they are British, or American, or what ever. Their children become part of the nation into which they settled.

Unfortunately, for muslims, they have a problem to overcome. Islam does not recognise nation states at all. The world is partitioned into two: Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb.

Dar al-Harb, the 'house of war', is where the Muslim law is not in force, so it would include the US and most (but not all) of Europe. It is every muslim's duty to extend the lands of Dar al-Islam, but they are not allowed to say so: it is part of their belief system to keep this confidential.

Dar al-Islam, the 'house of Islam', or Dar as-Salam, the 'house of Peace', as its name implies, is where Islam rules, and peace is found everywhere because everyone obeys Sharia Law: it is a natural thing to do there. It is why the religion is called 'the Religion of Peace'. You may have seen many of the reports on TV of peace breaking out in their lands, especially on the BBC. They are experts at this sort of thing.

So you see, being born in America is not such a life determining event for everyone, especially for those not recognising the US as a sovereign nation.

For the rest of us, if we continue to believe in Western values, including individual liberty, the rule of elected governments, tolerance towards gays, lesbians, atheists and the official political opposition, and do not react to the threats that we have today, we will have the clock turned back 1400 years, even in Norfolk, eventually.

More and more people are recognising that Trump is making a stand, and that no other US politician has, and got so far as he has.

Jun 15, 2016 at 3:13 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

Phobia: and exaggerated, usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation.

It isn't Islamophobia if they really are trying to kill you.

H/t I am stealing this straight from Janet at another blog.

Jun 15, 2016 at 3:47 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

WSJ May 31, : Trump Makes Sense on Energy HOLMAN W. JENKINS, JR.

Jun 15, 2016 at 4:01 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

EM, do you have graphs and diagrams showing how demand for water from Lake Mead has increased since it was built in the 1930s? How much water per day was Lake Mead designed to be able to supply, and when was that rate exceeded?

A well which has supplied 100 buckets of water per day for a 1000 years, may run dry if 1000 buckets are taken per day for a single week.

Jun 15, 2016 at 6:53 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Moderator, any chance of moving gc 6:53 to correct thread please!

Jun 15, 2016 at 7:08 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Martin, the political class should indeed not be disconnected from the real world. But a strange sort of disconnection seems particularly prevalent in the US Republican Party, which often rejects economics and science with which it disagrees. The rules of the game evolved over centuries so that things like attacking racial groups or other minorities is beyond the pale. This is for good reason, as the result of politicians doing so is usually somewhere between bad and catastrophic (you can hopefully supply your own examples from history, without my help). A candidate who flouts these rules can of course garner support from parts of society who let their animal instincts rule their brains - the rules of the game are there to protect us from such brute responses. Some Republicans have spent the last 8 years encouraging a racial divide by opposing a black president (birthers etc), so the party should not be surprised that it is reaping what they have sowed (and which the party failed to close down) in the selection of a person like Trump. The election will show us how deep modern tolerant multiracial multicultural civilization actually runs in the original melting pot and I expect it will show it to be strong. If it turns out to be weak and Trump triumphs, then I fear for minorities in all western societies.

Jun 16, 2016 at 12:09 AM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

Raff - you keep banging on about Trump being 'racist'. There is no question that he wants to stop illegal immigration into the USA particularly from Mexico. Are there other things that he stands for that justify your describing him as 'racist'?

Jun 16, 2016 at 8:36 AM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A

Golf Charlie

Basic information here.

In summary, the key date is 2000. For sixteen years a combination of reduced precipitation in the Colorado watershed and increased demand have taken water out of Lake Mead and it's feeder system faster than it went in.

A well is a good analogy for Lake Mead. As you say, if you want to use a water supply in the long term, you can only take water out as fast as it comes in. Nevada and California have not yet learned that lesson.

Jun 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

Martin A

Donald Trump racism

Jun 16, 2016 at 11:49 AM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

Martin, I don't think you need to believe he is a racist to accept that winding up the baser instincts of parts of society to demonize a racial or religious minority is dangerous, stupid and unacceptable and to condemn him for it. Do you or his other supporters here condemn that?

His racism is out in the open. Republican House speaker Paul Ryan said the other day that his comments on a judge were textbook racism. What more could anyone need?

Jun 16, 2016 at 1:24 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

Robert Christopher. How many generations do you think a Muslim needs to reside in the USA before, in your opinion, he can be considered an American? What do you consider a non-Muslim who converts? Trump's ramping up of the anti-Muslim rhetoric is itself racism of the worst sort.

Reading your last few posts (and those from others expressing similar sentiments) I wondered if you have known any Muslims, have any Muslim friends? If you had you should have realized they are little different from you or I. They are people too. You cannot treat Muslims as a group. That is racism.

Jun 16, 2016 at 3:24 PM | Unregistered CommenterAlan kendall

EM, so Lake Mead is being depleted faster than it was designed to fill in the 1930s.

I don't know what figure was used in the UK to calculate water usage per per per day in the 1930s, let alone the the USA.

The Elan Valley Dams were built in the middle of Wales to supply water to Birmingham in the late 1890s. The Claerwen Dam was an extra, completed in 1952 during major post war austerity, because someone had done their sums. Birmingham did not run dry in the summer of 1976, which was when I first saw those dams, used by the Dambusters for training, Landrover for advertising and Top Gear for theatrical reenactments.

The population of California has increased, so has the amount of water used per person, since the 1930s, and they still rely on the same dam. Wikipedia has an entry on California's Financial Crisis. Perhaps financial mismanagement and a lack of planning should be addressed to explain their shortage of stored water, exacerbated by a drought.

What makes you so sure that California's drought is due to Global Warming? It does seem to be an area with lots of desert, sunshine and non-rusty classic cars.

Jun 16, 2016 at 5:36 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

His racism is out in the open. Republican House speaker Paul Ryan said the other day that his comments on a judge were textbook racism. What more could anyone need?
Jun 16, 2016 at 1:24 PM Raff

"What more could anyone need?"
Well, something a lot more concrete than that.

My understanding is that Donald Trump recently said that the judge, of Mexican background, in an ongoing case, is prejudiced against him. Presumably with an impication that it is because of Donald Trump's statements about building a wall to keep out illegal immigrants from entering the USA.

That is an awful long way from what I would call "racism".

A page or two back you used the phrase "Racist Bigot", in connection with Donald Trump. Evidently without any justification whatever.

Jun 16, 2016 at 5:55 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A

Martin, I found your defence of Salby's suggestion that CO2 could be increasing at half the rate we are emitting and yet the increase wasn't down to us to be a surreal experience. But you outdo yourself claiming Trump isn't racist (amongst other things, racial, religious and perhaps sexual prejudice are his strong selling points to some). You are deep in denial over the nature of Trump.

Jun 16, 2016 at 6:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

Raff: you berate those who oppose Obama because of his colour; is not the support of him for exactly the same reason just as reprehensible? Surely, a person’s skin colour should not be relevant to their worth? Whether you support or oppose a person because of their skin colour, you are being racist – there is no such thing as “positive discrimination”; such a concept is inherently racist.

Jun 16, 2016 at 6:52 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Ratty, quite true, but so what? It applies to nobody here. And I don't remember Obama saying he wouldn't trust a white judge, for example.

Jun 16, 2016 at 7:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

In fact if he had made such comments in the primaries in 2008 it would have killed his candidacy. As it should Trump's.

Jun 16, 2016 at 7:22 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff