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Discussion > We are wasting our time; all of it.

Raff, horrible arguments. Boring. Come on man.

May 14, 2015 at 3:26 PM | Registered Commentershub

Raff, you're beaten.

Anyone still watching this can see you're just making spiteful polemic now, name-calling and general nastiness. The hallmarks of a loser who won't lie down.

If you can substantiate any of your claims, then that's another thing.

But you can't.

I know - and you know - you can't. And it makes you so angry.

So this is what this thread is about. Angry Raff going to take out his impotency here.

Pathetic.

May 14, 2015 at 3:53 PM | Unregistered CommenterTheBigYinJames

As I said, and as you seem to agree, your charlatan predecessors wrote the book on repressing inconvenient facts, starting with tetra-ethyl lead, through tobacco to climate. You are well aware of your heritage but pretend it all just disappeared. The charlatans are still there, you (collectively) just reclassify them as respectable because they say what you want to hear. You remain willing purveyors of the self interested messages from powerful vested interests. No anger there, just pointing out the obvious.

May 14, 2015 at 6:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

TBYIJ, I also enjoyed reading your post May 14, 2015 at 9:26 AM.
Saved me having to add anything.

May 14, 2015 at 6:58 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

I'm rather a fan of TEL. It increased efficiency. Now it's gone we have to pay more for the same effect. Now, is there any evidence at all of a reduction in whatever harm it was supposed to cause? Now we got the lead out, where is the benefit?

(I recall the smearing of Thomas Midgely the chemist and engineer on QI by the usual sneerocracy. Unpleasant way to get a cheap laugh.)

May 14, 2015 at 7:33 PM | Unregistered Commenterrhoda

People like Raff soooo want there to be a conspiracy because then they can feel that they're taking a brave stand against a small but mighty foe. The alternative is that they're whining at the visible tip of a very big public iceberg. I almost wish Raff was right and then all it would take is shutting down a few Koch types and everyone else would skip into a happy CO2 free future. Yeah, like persuading people to give up reliable energy is just a postscript.

That's why he hangs out here. He's afraid that normal people will just ignore his fossil fuel phobia, proving that this is no action movie no matter how authentic his superman tights.

May 14, 2015 at 10:12 PM | Unregistered CommenterTinyCO2

Raff,
The implications that your micro-brained drivel is nto going to evaporate like the consensus of lcimate apocalypse should give you pause. In the pre-internet era when fools and trolls such as yourself finally found out their obsession was utter crap they could quietly move on.
You live, however, in the age of the internet: Your idiocratic rants will last effectively forever. You won't be able to deny that you were a willing fool.
Or perhaps you are a dealer in tinfoil hats and are hoping to support the market?
Whatever rock you live under it is clear you are too stupid to self-reflect on what you type into whatever keyboard you are allowed access to.
Please do continue.

May 14, 2015 at 10:23 PM | Unregistered Commenterhunter

Rhoda: "I'm rather a fan of TEL." TEL is a neurotoxin. Its presence reduces IQ, amongst other effects. It is possible therefore that if you hadn't been exposed to so much, you might have had average intelligence, or at least high enough to know not to spout rubbish.

May 14, 2015 at 10:45 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

"We are wasting our time; all of it."

In reponding to someone whose only comments seem to be personal abuse.

May 15, 2015 at 7:17 AM | Unregistered Commentersplitpin

I agree splitpin,

Raff was already a latter stage troll* months ago, and he's come back here driven by nostalgia more than anything.

Wherever he went in the meantime wasn't as entertaining as here, obviously.


* they come to show us the error of our ways, find out we're not stupid, so under the Mad, Bad or Stupid mantra, we must be the bad. Trolls descend into sniping and bitterness in the latter stages.

May 15, 2015 at 8:52 AM | Unregistered CommenterTheBigYinJames

Yeah, he's come back worse. Advanced stage.

May 15, 2015 at 8:58 AM | Registered Commentershub

Well how do you respond to someone reminiscing about being able to spray a neurotoxin around the place? You claim the industry funded charlatans as part of your heritage but pretend they are a thing of the past. Well Rhoda and her TEL should be a reminder of their toxic nature. I bet if I mentioned DDT or tobacco or white asbestos or acid rain or the ozone hole there'd be regulars here creeping out of their holes to wistfully remember how once upon a time vested interests could openly fund sociopathic activities and get away with it. Now all that deceipt must be covered by artifice and cunning, fake charities and think tanks, academics producing 'deliverables' and on and on. But you see none of that, do you?

May 15, 2015 at 2:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

So where *is* the retirement home for former BH trolls? Where do they go after passing through the terminal stage?

To ATTP it seems. I went to look at Richard Betts's posting where he was being given a hard time by commenters for, among other things, "asserting that there actually has been a pause or hiatus".

There, among the commenters, were our old friends BBD and Entropic Man.

May 15, 2015 at 2:40 PM | Registered CommenterMartin A

Trying to return the discussion to its beginning; I thought it was interesting that during the election campaign Cameron virtually ignored immigration, defence and energy. I started by mentioning immigration but this is also in the mix:

"The European Council concluded on March 19 2015 that the EU is committed to building an Energy Union with a forward-looking climate policy on the basis of the Commission's framework strategy, whose five dimensions are closely interrelated and mutually reinforcing (energy security, solidarity and trust; a fully integrated European energy market; energy efficiency contributing to moderation of demand; decarbonising the economy; and research, innovation and competitiveness)."

This is a de-facto takeover of policy decisions by the EU on energy, climate change and immigration, no doubt defence will be next. Revolution anyone? Or is it already too late?
Little wonder that Cameron says so much about the NHS, what else is left?

May 15, 2015 at 3:19 PM | Registered CommenterDung

Raff: I have said it before, and will do so again – you do need to get some help. You are displaying some truly alarming symptoms of mental collapse; please do yourself a favour and get some professional advice.

May 15, 2015 at 3:32 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Now the lead is out, is there any data that IQ has increased? What I mean is, what observation backs up the assertion that the use of TEL in fuel led to any actual effect at all, and that that effect is now absent or reduced? Should I expect a stupid ad hom answer, or will there be references?

Rhoda, IQ in the 96th percentile, lived with leaded petrol most of my life.

May 15, 2015 at 6:03 PM | Unregistered Commenterrhoda

As for the millions the Commies killed, the Progressive Eco-Green Conspirators have bigger plans. Their declared means and ends involve imploding industrial society and cutting the global population down to size, by half a dozen billion or more, to a manageable maintenance workforce under the direction of their own enlightened selves. Unchanged since the days of their Fabian founders.

May 15, 2015 at 7:55 PM | Unregistered CommenterBrian H

Rhoda is a good example of the power of corporate lying and manoeuvring (see the history of TEL) to turn an apparently intelligent person into a corporate apologist. Such manipulation is at the heart of the repressing of inconvenient facts, starting with tetra-ethyl lead, through tobacco to climate. That is your past, present and future.

Martin, on retirement homes, BH seems a lot like one. Full of people like you who live in a fantsay land of imagined better past days (rather like UKIP in fact) and wishing for the unlikely. You yourself are, after several years it seems, still routing for Salby to overthrow established opinion on CO2. You can't possibly have missed the fact that his modus operandi is to tell complicated sounding lies and half truths to groups of people who are inequipped to comprehend. How do you justify that?

May 16, 2015 at 2:20 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

So, no refs then. A mere assertion.

May 16, 2015 at 2:48 PM | Unregistered Commenterrhoda

Refs? You need no refs from me to know that lead is a poison or to know its effects. Nor do you need refs from me to know that breathing it is harmful and not breathing it is not. You are as capable as I am (probably more so, with your 96th percentile IQ) of looking up whether stopping people from breathing lead improves their life chances and you are probably far more capable of rejecting any evidence that says it is harmful on spurious grounds. I suggest you go suck on a lead pipe for few years. It might bring your IQ down to a level where commonsense is operable.

People might reflect on the fact that other tail pipe emissions are not harmless either. In 50 years I imagine that people will view the idea of feeding cubustion products in general to the population as equally stupid.

May 16, 2015 at 5:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

Raff is in fully plumed troll mode, lol.
If we are going to dredge up heritage of causes, do let's to about the striking similarities between, say the Unabomber's manifesto and Gore's "Earth in the Balance". Or how about Pol Pot's desire for a pastoralist paradise sounds so much like so many greens. And of course let us not over look a certain recent historical figure with initials "AH", and his desire for all to live organic vegetarian lives like good volk should.
And then of course there is the famous call to green xenocide, "Time's Up" by Keith Farnish, endorsed by none other than the good Dr. Hansen. And then we have the schills of climate hype like Joe Romm, paid money by those profiting from climate fear to peddle extremist drivel.
If we are going to assign heritage, I prefer the one that has actually helped people and is not promoted by certifiable insane and wicked people.
Raff is now doing his version of Monty Python's "Black Knight" minus the charm and nuance.
Trolls nearly always turn out to be neverwuzzers, not even couldabeens.....

May 16, 2015 at 6:01 PM | Unregistered Commenterhunter

What happened to not feeding the troll folks? This guy has not made a single comment worth responding to.

May 16, 2015 at 8:38 PM | Registered CommenterDung

"You can't possibly have missed the fact that his modus operandi is to tell complicated sounding lies and half truths to groups of people who are inequipped to comprehend. How do you justify that?"

Raff, that is what is called a loaded question. Loaded questions do not merit being answered.

I find the level of fear and loathing that Salby inspires in "climate science" true believers interesting and very telling. Genuine science welcomes new viewpoints and interpretations of observed reality.

The knee-jerk reaction of the true believers in rationalising their dismissing of everything said by Salby is characteristic and predictable. And your own reaction in uncritically accepting what they say as valid, leading to your believing that Salby's words are "complicated sounding lies and half truths", is equally predictable. But it's what you would like to be true, so you believe it. That's how it is with True Believers.

Two or three years back I was interested in the dynamics of atmospheric CO₂ concentrations. One of the things I looked at was the history of atmospheric radiocarbon. I processed the ¹⁴C data and obtained essentially the same graphs as Salby displayed. So my opinion of someone (the hero to whom you gave a link) who characterises Salby's presentation as "dissembling with graphs" is essentially one of contempt.

May 16, 2015 at 9:03 PM | Registered CommenterMartin A

I was the first to respond to Raff.
And he ignored me.

Should I be proud at having immediately slain the troll (although leaving us with his zombie to pester the thread)?

Or should I be hurt at the rejection?

May 16, 2015 at 10:15 PM | Registered CommenterM Courtney

Genuine science welcomes new viewpoints and interpretations of observed reality.

What do you consider to be Salby's most significant new interpretations of observed reality and why are the rationalisations and dismissals of his interpretations wrong?

MC, as I asked before, is it possible that you are naive enough to think that your "skeptical" movement is somehow independent of the rich and powerful whose PR industry manufactured confusion, fear and doubt about TEL or tobacco etc? Maybe you are. But as evidence of the power of PR, look no further than Rhoda who with a 96 percentile IQ has been persuaded against basic commonsense that TEL is not bad.

May 16, 2015 at 10:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff